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The following is the opinion of the author, and his alone. It does not represent the views of The Firearm Blog or any other TFB staff member. But I bet it represents the views of many of our readers.I think SIG owes the gun world some answers. We’ve seen behavior from them over the past nine days that is not only unbecoming of a major manufacturer (such as lying to a major police department), but bizarre and inexplicable (such as saying drop safeties “legitimize mishandling”). And so, we have questions. SIG chose to design the P320 as a striker-fired handgun with a relatively high mass metal trigger with no trigger safety – despite the fact that this safety feature has been included on almost every striker-fired handgun since the 1970s. Trigger safeties are ugly, but functional and if designed properly do not interfere with the trigger’s feel.
Did SIG leave this off the firearm for aesthetic, or maybe cost reasons? Did they believe the gun would sell better with a trigger that looked more “SIG” than “Glock”? Why was such an obvious safety feature omitted from a firearm that clearly needed it?When the decision was made to omit this feature – and this decision was consciously made at some point, as – was any testing involved? Did SIG make this decision sight unseen without even determining its impact to the pistol’s safety characteristics, or – worse – did they make the decision in spite of evidence that it would reduce the gun’s safety?At what point during the Modular Handgun System program did the drop safety issue resurface? Was it before or after their pistol was selected by the Army to be the M17? Did the US Army request the changes to the trigger’s design, or did SIG make these changes on their own? Why didn’t SIG begin rolling out P320s with safety triggers – which they had already designed – at this point in time, instead of waiting for it to blow up in their face?How long has SIG known about It seems difficult to believe that SIG would not be promptly notified about this incident, so have they known their pistol’s defect had already caused someone injury for that entire time, without notifying the public?
If so, why didn’t they speak up then?why didn’t SIG take that opportunity to admit the issue and make the changes they already had in the pipeline? Why convince the Dallas PD they were mistaken about an issue that SIG was obviously fully aware of at the time? Why lie, for If anything, the Dallas PD’s announcement would seem to me to be the ideal time for SIG to come clean: A prompt, honest response would throw light on SIG as a company that takes user concerns seriously and acts quickly to fix them, and it doesn’t hurt that the recall occurred after Glock’s MHS protest had been rejected, either. It’s not like doing this would have been more expensive or difficult for SIG. The company appears to, around or even before the time of the Dallas PD’s decision. So why not then?SIG’s actual behavior has had the opposite effect, though. It makes one wonder: If SIG will dismiss the complaints of one of the largest police departments in the country – complaints about a problem they have known is real for months, possibly since before the pistol was even released – then how will the company treat the average Joe who has a problem? What does it say about a company whose CEO not only believes safety features just encourage negligence, but as part of damage control for a drop safety scandal?I am not SIG’s enemy., even though I personally prefer Glock handguns.
However, SIG’s practices and behavior – not just over the past few days but since even before the P320’s release – compel me to ask the question: What the heck are you guys thinking, SIG? The 6th paragraph makes an assumption that Sig was aware of the -30 degree drop issue at the time of the DPD issue. Do we know this for a fact? “That had to know” won’t cut it for this exercise.
If so please point to a source and outline. DPD did not rescind on an actual physical drop test of their own.
It was a new LT reading and older version of an owners manual. When sig cleared that up DPD was good. DPD had not even issued the P320 yet. Then Omaha tested. As a result Sig tested and came out with statement in full detail about the issue, what they could have done better and what their plan is going forward with more to come. This is hardly a Sig cover up. The DPD issue and -30 drop are two different issues.
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The biggest “hazard of the format” at TFB is your total reliance of clickbait to get any readers.In number two position would be asinine crap like “Why was such an obvious safety feature omitted from a firearm that clearly needed it?” Did it ever occur to you that there might NOT have been any “obvious” need during the design stage of the P320? You make it sound like we’re desperate for readers, when in reality we’re the number 1 gun blog in the world by a good margin.There are a lot of readers who call “clickbait” anything they don’t like. There’s nothing clickbait about this article, or really anything else I write.
I don’t mislead readers, I don’t put out empty content, and if you’re so sensitive to SEO-optimized titles that you can’t handle it, then don’t read stuff written for publications that check their Alexa rankings. I don’t see you “clickbaiting” the headlines are usually pretty succinct and on-point and there’s not the volume of articles where it would necessitate competition, and most aren’t linked from external aggregators where competition with other publications exist – It’s a single page linear progression of articles that most readers look at until they come upon something new.I do wish there were viable alternatives to WordPress – is sucks in so many ways(sometimes toxic ad scripts, multiple postings of the same article, etc). It’s not a matter of articles I like or don’t like — it’s a matter of articles that 1) Have headlines that are NOT accurate for the story; or 2) Have headlines and stories that are NOT accurate to the facts. Lives really aren’t at risk. Not anymore than any other negligent discharge.
No need to be hyperbolic about it. The gun is safe and has passed every regulated drop safety test.
I’ll bet you can find some more guns that will go off if you smack them with a hammer and I’ll bet they come from brands other than sig.Point is, it’s a RARE occurrence to drop a gun. And even more rare for this type of discharge to happen. If you think otherwise, then I question your handling skills. I’ve never, not once, dropped a firearm in my over 30+ years of handling them. Now accidents happen, I get it, but this type of accident shouldn’t happen if handled correctly, especially with the specific manner in which this must happen to occur. I respectfully disagree, though we are probably arguing about semantics. Subpopulation n of Pintos burst into flames, but not all of N Pintos did so, so arguing, in the statistical sense, that all N Pintos failed exaggerates the number of Pintos that actually burned.I suppose you could say that all V22 Ospreys are barely flying deathtraps, though more have successfully taken off and landed without incident than have fallen out of the sky.
There’s a known risk, just as there may be now with the 320. Whether that risk is statistically significant is a whole different story.
I’d be a lot more nervous in an Osprey than I’d be carrying a 320.Obviously, carrying a 320 actually IN an Osprey is the kiss of death. Which is why all LE agencies with officers that still carry the 870 require by policy that the shotgun is carried with an empty chamber, trigger pulled, safety off.There’s a reason that on page 25 of the P320 owners manual (until recently revised by Sig) printed in black & white was the following legal disclaimer for the P320:“If dropped, the pistol may fire. Keep the chamber empty unless actually firing.”See there, Sig had solved the problem long before the rest of us became aware of it, simply carry your P320 Israeli style with an empty chamber to reduce risk of a dropped gun bullet wound. Whether true or not, Sig claims they did not know about this specific issue until Omaha released their video. They claim the changes they made were to improve the trigger pull and some stuff like the disconnector were requirements for MHS. These changes resulted in a better trigger pull and by chance solved this drop safety issue.
We can debate if they should have known about the issue earlier but stop talking about them knowing about the issue and ignoring it as if it was fact. After it is verifiable that they learned of the issue they have dealt with it very well even bringing in many people from the media and being transparent about whats going on.As to the issue of adding a trigger safety, why in the world would you want that? That is how you ruin what could be a good safety. What gun is known for its great trigger and has a trigger safety? I do not own any sigs but would consider buying a 320. If they add a trigger safety, my chances of buying one would drop significantly unless there was an aftermarket option to get rid of it. I think it comes down to greed.
The bigger the company, the more they will lie, cheat and use just about every possible dirty trick in the bag just to increase profits. At the end of the day, business does not know honesty. Yes, there are businesses that behave rather honestly, but that’s due to the values of the people that operate said business, not due to business as an idea itself.I said it in another article that was about this P320 debacle; At the end of the day there’s only two objectives in business: 1) To minimise costs. And 2) To maximise profits. And even in the case of minimising costs, that is done in order to maximise profits. The bigger the company, the more ruthless they are in their pursuit of achieving those two goals.
And this is pretty much a universal thing across businesses, based on my own observations.Hell, the fact that they seem to be doing everything they can through PR and damage control to try and weasel out of this with minimal costs.And it’s so sad that it is like this, because i know from experience that if something is done correctly the first time – even if it costs significantly more than doing it poorly – the cost of fixing a poorly done job after the fact is almost always far more costly. And even if it wasn’t, it’s a sign of unprofessional work if it has to be fixed after the fact.“Either do it properly or don’t do it at all.” Is my motto. True, but stringent QA programs cost money, time and tie technical staff to the task.
So it’s also a factor that cuts into profits, while also being a risk management factor that can help minimise costs.Whether it was a question of time to market or some other variable, i don’t know, nor do i care. What matters to me is that they screwed up and are trying to weasel out of it by first covering it up and playing dumb as if they didn’t know about it. When they no longer could cover it up they announce that they just conveniently happen to have a solution right in their back pocket.Mistakes happen, sometimes things are overlooked and so on, i get that, but what i have absolutely no tolerance for is dishonesty. The only appropriate course of action for them was to be honest, but that ship has long since sailed. What they are now left with is a reputation of being dishonest and untrustworthy, people don’t forget this kind of behaviour so easily.
I’m not getting a “dishonest” vibe after reading about the media event they had just for this, see Soldier Systems Daily. What I do get is the typically response to American litigiousness, of a VERY guarded response. If any company, including SIG, were to immediately claim fault and responsibility for some form of error, in these United States, lawyers would be interbreeding to get enough lawsuits filed, regardless of their merits. In the US, admitting ANYTHING is a good way to get your words twisted and used against you.NO ONE who has done any of these so called “tests” has the background, equipment or resources to apply rigorous and valid testing processes to these pistols.
We aren’t talking SAAMI/NIST/Natick level testing here, we are talking about amateurs with internet access and hammers, so I’ll wait and see what SIG does Monday, and what REAL testing reveals. I’ve been a PR flack for 30 years and a Glock owner for just a few months. In fact, my Glock 19 is the first firearm I’ve ever purchased. But after witnessing firsthand the potential public relations crisis surrounding the Sig Sauer P320 semi-automatic pistol, I’ve decided that I’m going to become a Sig owner.I didn’t make this decision lightly. (I understand from reading countless firearms forums that allegiance to a firearm brand can rival allegiance to a beloved sports franchise.) But I’ve read enough to know that Sig Sauer firearms in general and the P320 specifically are among the safest handguns on the market today. And Sig’s handling of this situation tells me that they care as much about the safety and integrity of their products as they do about their sterling reputation. And they are willing to do whatever it takes to preserve both.
First of all I have to admit up front that I’m a bit of a fan boy. I carry a P320 and this issue doesn’t make me feel any different about my gun. It does, however, make me feel different about the company that manufactures it. How many times have we seen thisbig corporation is aware of a problem but does nothing until the public becomes aware then makes like it’s not a big deal until it is a big deal. Then the PR people go into full spin mode until the company does what it should have done in the very beginning. I love my gun but I’m very disappointed in the company that makes it. Many of your questions have already been answered.The already designed Enhanced Trigger was not originally intended to fix the drop issue.
It was to fix the “double click” issue and was initiated at the Military’s request. “At what point during the Modular Handgun System program did the drop safety issue resurface? Was it before or after their pistol was selected by the Army to be the M17? Did the US Army request the changes to the trigger’s design, or did SIG make these changes on their own? Why didn’t SIG begin rolling out P320s with safety triggers – which they had already designed – at this point in time, instead of waiting for it to blow up in their face?”We know that the M17/M18 has differences from the Off the Shelf Sig P320.
The manual safety being one of those changes Yes Yes I can hear the Cries of A manual Safety on a modern Combat pistol Cry me a River. My point is That although the XM17 was derived from the P320 it’s undergone changes.
And The -30 drop may not be an issue for M17 pistols due to the changes. I find it amusing that all of you “Operators” out there (the ones that get your panties in a bunch about how dangerous a manual safety is on a striker fired handgun), can get so worked up about this issue.
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Glocks (and many other brands I’m sure) fire when dropped all of the time and I haven’t heard a word about that. How does this happen?
Someone tries to catch them and inadvertently activates the trigger. I keep hearing that “I don’t need a safety, my trigger finger is all the safety I need”. Well why doesn’t the same apply to dropping? I don’t need a drop safety my hand gripping the handgun is all I need. This behavior is symptomatic of a project or organization that has been taken over by aggressive, ambitious, competitive, personalities. It is very common to encounter these types in corporations, government, military, and any place there exists a ladder to be climbed and power to be gained.
More than anything else, they seek fame, recognition, and respect. Their reputations and lists of accomplishments mean more to them than anything else. They strive to never, NEVER, show weakness. To them, accepting blame is weakness.
Admitting guilt is weakness. Admitting to making an error is weakness.
They will lie, deny, and blame others, but never willingly admit to making a mistake unless they can see a way to leverage it into future success. It is far better to them to cover up and deny making a mistake, even if it means others are hurt or killed.You can’t make them correct a mistake by holding their feet to the fire. They will deny wrongdoing, seek to cast doubt on even the most damning evidence, and seek out sycophants to help add the appearance of legitimacy to their denials. The only solution is to laser focus on them, blame them squarely for the mistake they’ve made, and do whatever is necessary to drive them from the project or organization they’re damaging.They can be useful if tightly controlled and consistently denied positions of leadership, but as they crave the very power and control that makes them so harmful, it makes managing them a constant chore.
As a “Numbers Cruncher” I tend to approach a subject such as this one with questions. “How many sig P320 have been sold overall and how many of them have fired when dropped?”.I have seen a video on this issue and a person lined up all the popular striker fired pistols to test them with a mallet strike so see which ones would fire. The result was all the pistols with trigger-safety system did not fire when struck, and the sig was the only one which did.So of the known cases of a Sig P320 firing without pulling the trigger, that’s three–the guy did achieve a discharge several times off camera so it’s a valid finding.BUT.when it comes to striker fired pistols, the idea of a safety, I believe is all up to the individual and his pistol. Some do not need a safety—their brain is enough.
Some need one to have CC confidence—no problem choose one and buy it accordingly. And some need more safeties than there are invented on a pistol.I believe the ‘take-away’ truth here on the SIg P320 is.it’s a testament as to just how responsible and safe the overwhelming majority of all pistol owner are. And the Sig owners are probably, if I had the real sales numbers on this pistol, would be, in the 99.95% safe responsible handling category.I’ve been handling guns for many years in public range areas and never, not one time, seen a person drop their pistol. So in my areas of the world, it’s more rare than.everything I’ve ever crunched the numbers on.Do I think Sig should do what ever it takes to eliminate this from happening no matter who drops it, at what angle, at any force, be it with a hammer, mallet, or God forbid, using the pistol as a hammer to stop an attack—-essentially shooting yourself in the chest as you strike the guys head with the striker end of the slide portion of the pistol. YES, absolutely fix it so it can never fire until the trigger is squeezed. Geezanother article about the P320.
I’ll say it again though, back during the 80’s when the Army decided to drop the 1911 for the Beretta M9, the articles about how horrible the Beretta was were RAMPANT. Stillno matter how many articles were written and how many alternatives were presented, the M9 won out and served well.The M9 had SEVERAL issues as wellI mean WHOLE SLIDES were going ballistic and hammering dudes in the forehead. Beretta fixed the issues and life continued.
Sono matter how many answers are demanded from Sig and how butthurt the Glock fans are that Sig won the MHS, the new Army pistol is gonna be a modified Sig P320.THIS DEAD HORSE HAS BEEN BEATEN INTO DUST. I love SIGs, for a multitude of reasons, performance topping the list. Being a small, older female w/arthritic hands, The SIG p238 was the gun recommended as my first gun purchase and the only one I was able to comfortably rack. I’ve since upgraded to 938. As my skills & knowledge have improved, I have tried & purchased other brands and eventually traded them in for another SIG. Even the Mosquito & I have resolved our differences, and our relationship continues. I certainly am appreciative about the info & knowledge I acquire from TFB, this latest included, particularly in light of the fact that I have two P320s, both in 9mm–the Carry & the sub compact.
I am disappointed in the way this issue has been handled by SIG; it just doesn’t seem like the SIG way of doing business. I have always had such good customer service w/them on any questions or concerns. I expect it will be resolved and await a recall notice for a trigger upgrade. In the meantime, I will continue to be mindful of the proper safe handling of firearms. My friend was shot by his P320 yesterday. It was in the holster, a Sig holster, he was wearing the weapon on the small off his back.
He reached to adjust it. He touched it while holstered. It shot directly through his left butt cheek, a fully mushroomed hollow point defense round. He didn’t drop it.
He reached to adjust it and touched it. These weapons are seriously dangerous. That weapon could have been killed someone, be could have been falsey charged with a crime, possibly murder, that wasn’t his fault, if not just ending up dead himself. All these SIG nutswinger and trolls need to wake up. This P320 dangerous, was designed improperly.
Why else would the Dallas PD remove it from service. I am encouraging him get legal consultion on this matter, he is ruluctant because he is a good American who doesn’t like legal crapWell I am a self confessed “gun nut” myself, however when holstered weapons can’t be trusted not to discharge we’ve got some serious problems. I own a sig p320 and am not a happy camper at the way sig is treating us owners. I have found the weapon to be reliable and accurate but upon hearing about it failing drop tests I did my own and found that it will fire in the manner claimed. My 17 year old daughter and I use this gun for target shooting.
We follow all standard saftey precautions when handling our weapons however when I purchased this gun I expected it to be drop safe. Accidents can happen and it is not to much to expect that a modern quality weapon such as the sig p320 should be drop safe. As a Canadian sig owner I am expected to wait until sig figures out how to handle the recall for Canadian owners. In the email they sent to me they said U.S.
Owners could expect a wait of 4 to 6 weeks to correct the problem and that Canadian owners will have to wait until they figure out a process to handle our guns. I would kindly suggest that sig should offer us an option for a refund of our purchase price and they can have the defective weapon back.
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